NEED TO KNOW
- Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Dana Bash got into a tense argument during the Aug. 2 episode of CNN’s State of the Union
- The secretary of health and human services and the journalist exchanged heated words about various health issues, including the COVID-19 pandemic, vaccines and measles
- The on-air back-and-forth between RFK Jr. and Bash went on for 20 minutes
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. got into a heated exchange with Dana Bash surrounding various health issues while appearing on CNN’s State of the Union this weekend.
During the Sunday, Aug. 2, episode of the political program, Bash, 55, brought up how RFK Jr., 72, has placed blame surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic and how the United States responded to it on Dr. Anthony Fauci — a physician-scientist who previously served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) until 2022.
Pointing out that Fauci, 85, worked for President Donald Trump, she asked RFK Jr. if the president “deserves some of the blame.” In response, the secretary of health and human services defended Trump, 80, and sparred with Bash about the pandemic overall.
When Bash later asked RFK Jr. about “how to prevent the next pandemic,” and highlighted how he wants to end gain-of-function research, which, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), helps “understand the genetic makeup of viruses and the specifics of virus-host interaction,” RFK Jr. once again pushed back.
Reiterating her question, and telling RFK Jr., “That’s literally part of your job now,” Bash and RFK Jr. still continued to clash about the idea of a potential future pandemic.
Bash eventually tried to steer the conversation in a different direction, stating, “I really want to move on.” RFK Jr. fired back at her, however, telling Bash: “Yeah, of course you want to, because you were part of the problem.”
When Bash replied, “No, I wasn’t a part of the problem,” RFK Jr. responded, “There was absolute press malpractice.”
After once again going back and forth with each other during the tense on-air exchange, Bash asked RFK Jr., “Do you want to sit here and attack me, or do you want to have conversations about public health?” In response, he said, “Well, you’re sitting here attacking me.”
“I’m not attacking you. I’m asking questions about how to prevent the next pandemic,” Bash rebutted, adding that she didn’t want to use their interview together as an opportunity for the politician “to say things that aren’t entirely true.”
As both RFK Jr. and Bash continued to clash and speak over each other, the health secretary told Bash at one point, “You’re talking nonsense, you’re making assertions you can’t support, and then when I call you [out], you tell me I’m arguing.”
Trying to calm the tense conversation, Bash explained that the COVID-19 pandemic was a “scary time,” which prompted RFK Jr. to tell her, “You were scaring people.”
When Bash questioned his response, RFK Jr. replied, “That was the job of CNN.”
Bash pushed back, however, telling RFK Jr., “Okay, stop. We were listening to the leaders in this country, including the president, who had a daily press conference explaining what was going on and trying to listen.”
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Eventually transitioning the conversation to measles, Bash, citing medical data, spoke about record-breaking cases of the illness among those who are unvaccinated.
Pointing to RFK Jr.’s longtime stance against vaccines — and even calling him “the most famous vaccine skeptic on the planet” — Bash asked him, “Do you accept some responsibility for this measles outbreak?”
In response, RFK Jr. said, “Absolutely not,” and claimed the outbreak wasn’t limited to just the U.S.
He also took aim at Fauci again, and later during the interview, RFK Jr. doubled down on his claims that Tylenol causes autism. (The relationship between acetaminophen, the non-brand name for Tylenol, and autism has been the subject of many research studies, but most have delivered inconclusive results. Acetaminophen is considered one of the few safe options to treat pain or fever during pregnancy.)
Nearing the end of the tumultuous interview, RFK Jr. told Bash, “I know you’re flustered now,” to which she responded, “I’m not flustered at all, I am frustrated.”
The journalist continued, “The reason I am frustrated is because you are the HHS secretary, and you are talking about things that lead to vaccine hesitancy in this country, and it is something that causes problems for people.”
RFK Jr. went back at Bash, telling her, “You’re repeating like a parrot.”
He added, “All you know how to do is repeat things that people told you and say, ‘Trust the experts.’ “
As their interview came to a close, Bash told RFK Jr., “I’m sorry this came to a very contentious conversation.”
Explaining, “My job is to try and get the best information out there,” Bash continued, “It does concern me when you come in and say things that have been dis[proven].” She then thanked RFK Jr. for appearing on the weekend program.
In a statement to PEOPLE, a CNN spokesperson said, “Dana Bash is a veteran journalist who conducted a newsmaking interview with Secretary Kennedy in which he stated that he supports parents getting their children vaccinated against measles and addressed President Trump’s push for further study into autism and vaccines. Asking tough, substantive questions to those in power is the job of every journalist, and Dana did hers incredibly well today. We stand behind Dana, her reporting, and CNN’s overall coverage of the COVID-19 pandemic.”